Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit tekhound's column >>

TEKHOUND

Technology Professional & Enthusiast
Articles Posted: 1  Links Seeded: 0
Member Since: 1/2006  Last Seen: 10/29/2009

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Apple...Did they miss the brass ring with Windows Users?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:53 PM EST
technology, apple, intel, commentary, new-computers
By tekhound
Advertise | AdChoices

I work and play in the Windows world...have been since 3.1 was released. Up until a few years ago, I did not go outside my box (my beige box specifically). My father got an Apple iMac G3 for me a few years back for $75 when the school district he was working for moved to Windows . I put in 512MB of RAM and a 40GB Hard Drive. Got a USB external DVD and I was off. I was really impressed with OS X. I must admit I felt a little like a new computer user...I didn't know where anything was. I ended up getting a G3 tower just recently from my father-in-law for free, so I could use a KVM and only have one monitor, keyboard and mouse, while getting some extra desk space in the process. Everything is working great and I am still loving it.

I said all of the that to ask this...what was Apple thinking when they rolled out the new intel macs? Did any of them not read ANYTHING on the internet while in development? In my mind, they missed a golden opportunity to take a chunk out of Dell, HP and to a small extent Microsoft.

Much to the distain of Apple users, I like Windows XP and OS X. I would love to be able to offer OS X to my staff, but because of what we do and the fact that all of the specialized software that my company uses runs only on Windows, I can't get rid of it. Did Apple lose a golden opportunity with my company? I think so.

Face it, OS X is a safer operating system. If Apple made it possible to dual boot, it would definately be a first step in possibility of running one in the other. Can anyone say VM? Think of it...running OS X and being able to open a VM window with Windows XP talking to native x86 hardware running at full speed. That would be a IT Admins wish come true...a fully locked down XP VM that didn't talk to the internet and just ran the stuff OS X couldn't. Think of the restful nights. Think of the long weekends. Think of no more patch Tuesday.

But, as with the single button iMac mouse, Steve missed the boat. People want choices Steve...they want two buttons, or even three maybe. And yes, they want your kick butt looking hardware and software, with the ability of running Windows or Linux. Why? Because very few people dive in with both feet. They like to test the water. Giving them the ability to dual boot or Apple working with VMWare to offer their VM Product in a Mac, would start you down the path of greatness. Think of the whole DVD+ and DVD- problem. Get one burner that does both and your set.

Giving people like myself the ability to run multiple platforms on one box would be sheer nirvana. Giving customers the ability to buy Apple hardware and put whatever certified OS (including Linux) on it with OS X would be a sign that Apple IS in fact a hardware company like they claim, not a company that sells hardware to run the software it creates...like it looks to me. Again...I'm not a basher of Apple. I have got two macs and a ipod. But I would love a macbook pro that could let me run everything I want, Windows XP included, without the hassle of multiple hardware systems.

Man just think of it...a MacBook Pro and a 30-inch Apple Cinema Display...I would never leave my computer. WAIT...THAT'S IT! I know why now. My wife called Steve and said no.

I have to go do the dishes now..good night to all.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • tekhound's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (15)
emeryc

But there will be a full VM, Microsoft is working on it as we speak, they have Guaranteed that they will have their VM ported over, and it will run faster. Also, Wine will be available for OS X pretty quickly as well if I don't miss my guess. Dual Booting while not supported will occur, making a boot loader for XP will probably be one of the first things hobbyist get going.

Just because Apple isn't offering the product, doesn't mean it won't be there. Most small Apple developers like the fact that it won't be in there, at least to a point, it gives them something to do.

    Reply#1 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:09 AM EST
    taavi223

    Running Windows on a Intel Mac should be possible once Vista arrives. The problem lies in the fact that the new Intel Macs use EFI instead of a BIOS. Right now, no version of Windows supports EFI, but wait a year and Vista will!

      Reply#2 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:37 AM EST
      Greg Plancich

      C'mon, would you really want to have to reboot every time you wanted to use that one program?

      Plus, it's not Apple's fault, it's Intel's because they use EFI instead of BIOS. Vista should support EFI.

        Reply#3 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:47 AM EST
        rickvug

        First off, Mighty Mouse. It's great and it is a sign of Apple's changing ways.

        As for the rest of the entry...

        WINE is the answer my friend. Not only will you not have to leave OS X, running the windows and mac software side by side. Not only that, your computer will still be safe from windows malware.

        As for running Windows, wait a month or two (maybe less!) and you will see a solution for XP. Once you get past EFI, it should be smooth sailing. If Microsoft can emulate the whole x86 architecture on Power PC's, I'm sure that they can make a boot loader. Better yet, there is about $8000 waiting at www.winxponmac.com for the first hacker to solve the problem.

          Reply#4 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:36 AM EST
          MatthewM

          Id like an OS switching thing in the style of the user switching in OSX (the rotating cube thing). That is if of course they cant make it as transparent as Classic in OSX.

            Reply#5 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:18 AM EST
            SpeedmasterDeleted
            Daniel Andrews

            The problem is the Mac isn't using the old, outdated BIOS, and windows does not yet support EFI. Once someone writes a hack to get XP to boot in EFI, there will be no problems with running Windows on your Mac.

            Even Phil Schiller said that Apple will "not preclude users" from running Windows on their Mac. But they're also not interested in helping Microsoft sell more copies either. So, it's just a waiting game.

              Reply#7 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:00 AM EST
              Carl Howe

              Both scenarios -- being able to dual boot and run XP or Vista in a virtual machine -- will happen, but they just take time. My belief is that Microsoft is stalling on the Virtual PC port; WINE, GuestPC, and Wintel emulators are already in the field now, and given that Virtual PC from Connectix (the company Microsoft bought for this emulation technology) already ran on x86 Unix-based platforms, it's not like this is rocket science. Finally, I believe that Steve could get a world-class multi-environment system pretty quickly by calling Diane Green over at VMWare and saying, "lets make a deal.". VMWare also is already available for Linux and I am sure would be happy to have another customer.

              Dual-booting isn't hard, but Apple chose a more modern booting platform that WinXP doesn't support. I believe that someone will figure that out fairly quickly. But I agree with the comments above; who wants to dual-boot their machine all the time? Better to just run multiple environments under Mac OS and keep the security issues within into the Windows environment instead of infecting the entire machine. Keep a copy of your XP image on your disk, and if you get infected or corrupted, just copy the image and you are back up and running. And you won't have to reboot your actual machine to do it, either.

              Finally, Apple sells a four-button mouse called the Mighty Mouse with a two-dimensional scroll wheel. But just as Newsvine tries to keep a clean interface for casual users, I still believe that one button is plenty for average users. I have a friend who still struggles with when to click, where to click, and whether to single-click or double-click. Two mouse buttons would just annoy him more.

              -Carl

                Reply#8 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:11 AM EST
                raffid

                Hmm interested article but I guess you haven't really been keeping up with tech news recently. For starters, Apple specifically said that they are doing nothing to stop people from installing Windows on the Macbook Pro and iMac intel computers. Microsoft even commented by saying "the more computers that can run windows, the better". This goes hand in hand with the fact that Microsoft and Apple now have a 5 year deal to have Microsoft continue development of their OS X products like Office, and Messenger.

                XP doesn't run natively on the Macbook Pro because XP was designed before EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface http://www.intel.com/technology/efi/) was implemented. And since EFI is what Macbooks run on, it doesn't know how to boot XP properly without emulation. However, when Vista is released it will natively support EFI, and so therefore it should natively run on the Macbooks since Apple has not implemented any tools to stop people from doing so (this is a smart move by them).

                Tada?

                  Reply#9 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:18 AM EST
                  tekhound

                  Microsoft never puts anything out on time. They probably do not want to do a good job of it in the first place, so they won't get Dell, HP and all the other hardware vendors mad by making a product that might start taking a chunk out of their sales. Remember...Microsoft and Intel have been telling these guys for years what to do and to some extent how to do it. Now Microsoft is going to create a product that lets someone buy Apple hardware and run Windows and not get that new shiny Dell Dimension?

                  That's why I think Steve should have gone the VM way. You can pretty much run every OS ever made EXCEPT Apple. Now I know some of you will say that there are ways to make it run, but not the way most people could, unless you knew alot about computers. Keep in mind that I am talking about running VM of Windows or Linux on the Mac, not allowing OS X on a VM. That would be great, but not what Apple wants. And that wouldn't require hacking the OS, trying to figure out this whole EFI thing, just working with VMWare to get their workstation app to run in the OS X world.

                  And don't think for a second that Intel was the one that suggested the EFI over the BIOS thing. Apple asked for this and they did it for one really good reason...support. If people could dual boot as easily as you can with Linux and Windows, than people would be calling. They did not want the support headache. Even if they officially didn't support it, they would still get the calls. Besides, the apple faithful are already thinking of rioting in the streets for even the thought of Windows on Apple hardware.

                  If Apple wants more of the consumer market share, they are going to have to do a better job of wooing over Windows users. Selling a $50 mouse that really doesn't have any buttons, but is a four button mouse is not the answer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I have tested it and heard alot of feed back. It's not my (or most people's) cup of tea. And remember...my whole mouse comment was based on the fact that EVERY Windows and Linux user in the world uses a two button mouse.

                  I appreciate everyone's comments...I am trying this writing thing and would appreciate constructive comments on the style and flow of the article. I have been writing to my staff for years, but this is a little different. Having to express my opinion to people with and without computer/technical experience was more difficult that I thought. Thanks for reading.

                    Reply#10 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:05 PM EST
                    M.e.

                    We've always had the option of running multiple platforms on one Mac. I've had Yellow Dog, Debian and now Ubuntu partitions on various Macs since I started using computers. Windows is the only one I haven't been able to get running natively.

                    Dual booting and VM are so 90's, though. To be of any real use, you need performance and drag/drop/cut/paste across multiple platforms running natively on your machine. Intel's roadmap includes this possibility. It's not that Apple has missed the brass ring, it's that the ring is actually golden, and it hasn't been dispensed just yet.

                      Reply#11 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:06 PM EST
                      tekhoundDeleted
                      Dan Dickinson

                      Did any of them not read ANYTHING on the internet while in development?

                      Taking business direction from "the internet" is a bit like shooting yourself in the foot, only somewhat more deadly. Maybe in the appendix?

                      If Apple wants more of the consumer market share, they are going to have to do a better job of wooing over Windows users. Selling a $50 mouse that really doesn't have any buttons, but is a four button mouse is not the answer.

                      Look, the two-button mouse argument has been beaten beyond death; yes, Apple's bundling a multi-button mouse with their desktops now. No, most Windows users *don't* use it. No, the type of mouse that's included with the system has nothing to do with its viability as a "switching" platform. People don't buy computers for the mice that come bundled with them.

                        Reply#13 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:53 PM EST
                        Dan Dickinson

                        ("it" in "most Windows users don't use it" = right mouse button, not the Mighty Mouse)

                          Reply#14 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:54 PM EST
                          SangreDeThor

                          intresting. i agree with M.e. it is about performace and the multiple platmores seeamless and natively.

                            Reply#15 - Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:05 PM EST
                            Leave a Comment:
                            You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                            You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                            (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                            Newsvine Privacy Statement
                            As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                            FUN STUFF:
                            • Leaderboard |
                            • E-Mail Alerts |
                            • Top of the Vine |
                            • Newsvine Live |
                            • Newsvine Archives |
                            • The Greenhouse |
                            COMPANY STUFF:
                            • Code of Honor |
                            • Company Info |
                            • Contact Us |
                            • Jobs |
                            • User Agreement |
                            • Privacy Policy |
                            • About our ads
                            LEGAL STUFF:
                            • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                            • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                            • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com